Pak charge bags

[StielGr]

Not sure what section this thread should be in but I have posted it here as it is related to DJH's excellent Pak40 cutaway:
http://www.wk2ammo.com/showthread.php?t=662

Question for DJH
What do you use to represent the cordite in the Pak and KwK bags?
I have tried filling the bags with polystyrene balls but it just doesn't look right.

If anyone else has other methods their help would be much appreciated.

Regards
SG

[PzGr40]

Hi stielgr,
I use spagetti , cut to length and painted black with ink. It's a hell of a job to make small fake powder. You start by placing appr 50 spagetti strings side by side, connecting them on the lower side with duct tape. You than need a offic paper cutter to cut them to appr 3/4 mm lenth pieces. Tak a sift to take out the dust and (by hand) sift out too long pieces.
To paint them buy a bottle of the ink used to fill marker pens. After glueing them to the cartboard template which is going to be placed in the cutaway model of the shellcase use some graphite powder -lightly dusted over the filled template- to give it the natural appearance of powder.

For the bigger types , using sticks , I use either bamboo mats , either roll up curtains made of these sticks ( up to 1 mtr liong available)
http://www.wk2ammo.com/showthread.php?t=1200
Do not use Spagetti in bigger shells (like 3,7cm) cutaway models , as after a while this will bend by humidity, wrecking the appearance of the cutaway model, either the mice will eat it (no joke!)

For the big shells (75 mm or higher ) I use wooden sticks , available in different sizes (5 mm , 7 mm , 9 mm) and 2mtrs long.

[StielGr]

Thank you DJH
I knew I could depend on you to answer with superb and detailed information.

I have a number of Pak and KwK bags and I hope to fill them so I can place them beside the related shell. They are listed below with their type and charge content:

5cm Pak 38 898g Digl.R.P.
7,5cm Pak 40 820g Gu.Bl.P.
7,5cm KwK 40 2.470Kg Digl.R.P.
7,5cm KwK 40 725g Gu.Bl.P.

To help me I need to know what length and diameter the sticks would be for each bag.

From the manuals it looks like sprgr and Hl had short bags with a rod to hold them in place and the pzgr where open with the cordite sticking out.

Can anyone help with the above bags to tell what type of shell each was for?

Many thanks
SG

[greif]

Hello SG,

The measurements of the propelling charges are written between the brackets, for instance:

7,5cm Pak 40
820g
Gu.Bl.P.-A0- (4.4.0,6)

Gu.Bl.P. = Gudol Blätchen Pulver = Gudol Flake Powder
(4.4.0,6) = These are flakes 4 mm by 4 mm, thick 0,6 mm

820 g = this is the weight of a propelling charge for the HE-shell.

Regards,
greif

[StielGr]

Thank you greif

That helps to explain why the sprgr shells have a shorter charge bag but is the "powder stick" as discribed by pzgr40 (link below) part of the charge?
http://www.wk2ammo.com/showthread.php?t=1198

I have attached a picture of a KwK40 bag.
It is listed as -G0.5-(370x3.8/1.5) (420)

I'm I right to say this represents sticks of 370mm long with a diameter of 3.8mm.

What is the 1.5mm and the 420mm for?

Regards
SG

[greif]

Hello SG,


The powder stick is actually a support stick, keeping the powder bag in place with its supplementary charge in the base pressed against the primer. I don’t think it was part of the charge, but it had to vaporize with the charge, preventing it from doing harm to someone or something around the muzzle of the gun.

The charge was made of Röhren Pulver (R.P.), so it were no sticks but tubes (Rohr = tube) with an outer diameter of 3,8 mm and an inner diameter of 1,5 mm.
The tubes were different in length. The outer tubes were 370 mm in length, the inner tubes were 420 mm in length. (see picture)

The weight of the charge was approx. (= etwa) 2,43 kg powder from type G1 according to the manual. Your bag contained about 2,470 Kg powder from type G0,5. I have a bag which contained 2,51 Kg of type G1. (see picture)

Regards,
greif

[StielGr]

Hello greif
Thank you once again for taking the time to provide such a detailed and informative explanation.

I now can also work out my 5cm Pak bag.
898g of Röhren Pulver Digl type G6. Length 310mm, outer diameter 3mm, inner diameter 1mm.

Besides the Flake and Tubular were there other shaped propellant for Pak and KwK shells?

Regards
SG