.303

[racefiets]

.303 britisch

[ammo-shark]

He Race fiets

Heb je in je collectie ook doorsneden van .303 en zou je die foto's ook willen plaatsen. Speciaal ben ik opzoek naar afbeeldingen van armour piercigs en indien mogelijk afbeeldingen met een kern!!

Thanks

[rigby]

He Race fiets

Heb je in je collectie ook doorsneden van .303 en zou je die foto's ook willen plaatsen. Speciaal ben ik opzoek naar afbeeldingen van armour piercigs en indien mogelijk afbeeldingen met een kern!!

Thanks

@Zünder, kannst du das bitte übersetzen?

danke
rob

[Hakim_StB]

Habe mal ne Frage: Was Symbolisieren die Farbspitzen bei den Allierten Geschossen???
Kenne dies nur an den deutschen :-(

[rigby]

US .50 Browning hier
http://www.wehrtechnikmuseum.de/Noch_Fragen_/Antworten/Farbe_Cal_50/farbe_cal_50.html

Britische .303 hier
http://www.harringtonmuseum.org.uk/303CartRTT.htm

[zünder]

@Rob: der Munitionshai möchte wissen ob Rennfahrrad Schnitte von .303 Patronen hat, und wenn ja.. ob er davon dann Bilder einstellen kann.
Munitionshai sucht insbesondere nach Bilder von Panzer-brechende Geschosse, am Liebsten mit ein gutes Bild der Hartkern.

[rigby]

@Rob: der Munitionshai möchte wissen ob Rennfahrrad Schnitte von .303 Patronen hat, und wenn ja.. ob er davon dann Bilder einstellen kann.
Munitionshai sucht insbesondere nach Bilder von Panzer-brechende Geschosse, am Liebsten mit ein gutes Bild der Hartkern.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: Aha Danke

[PzGr40]

Here a row of .303 brittish in cutaway. Before you ask: No, they are not for sale. from left to right , Boat tailed ball , ball, tracer, AP, Incendiary (later type , Incendiary (earlier type) Incendiary ( phospor), Propelling cartridge , Blank.

[PzGr40]

Ps.: all these.303's are easily available on ERCA and other meetings for licenced collectors.. With regards PzGr40

[Vince]

The Japanese Navy also used the .303 cartridge.

Regards,
Vince

[ammo-shark]

Zünder hat recht, ich hatte gerne zeichnungen oder Bilder bekommen von zb. .303 Munition welcher mit "kernen"verschossen sind, die zgn. "Armour Piecing" Geschosse

Ich versuche den "hartkernen /Flanschegeschosse aber auch Geschosse mit einen Kern verschossen" als Spezialität in meinen Sammlung unter zu bringen.

Ale information über solcher Geschosse (ich hab natürlich auch selber schön ein und ander bei einander gefunden) aber alles ist hertzlichen wilkommen. Die ganze Site von W2K ammo hab ich schön durchsucht!!

Entschuldigung für das Holländische gebrauch. nächstes mahl geht es wieder in deutsch oder englisch!!

Grüsse

[mauser]

Hallo,

Ik heb het begrepen. :D

In Deutsch; Ich habe es Verstanden.


Mauser

[greif]

@Hakim_Stb

Nachstehendes Bild aus einem US Handbuch.

[Viriato]

That should be the 7.7 mm Arisaka (7.7x58), as fielded in the Type 99 rifles of 1939. Not exactly a "standard" .303 round.

They were used all across the Japanese Army, replacing the 6.5 mm round that was used in their older rifles, and not just by the Imperial Japanese Navy.
Nevertheless, you could still find troops with 6.5 mm rifles all the way to 1945, just by shortages in supply.

Probably an approximate copy of the .303 rounds the British fielded on the Lee-Enfield, if somewhat longer (7.7 x 56 mm R, for the .303). Not surprising, taking into account the British colonial presence on the Far-East.

Without checking the propellants used and pressures developed for each of the cartridges, would definitely not cross my mind putting an AP (or even Ball) .303 round on a Type 99, unless I had absolutely no other choice. This even more so for some of the later war Type 99s, that were produced using pretty poor materials and manufacturing practices.

[Munition]

That should be the 7.7 mm Arisaka (7.7x58), as fielded in the Type 99 rifles of 1939. Not exactly a "standard" .303 round.

They were used all across the Japanese Army, replacing the 6.5 mm round that was used in their older rifles, and not just by the Imperial Japanese Navy.
Nevertheless, you could still find troops with 6.5 mm rifles all the way to 1945, just by shortages in supply.

Probably an approximate copy of the .303 rounds the British fielded on the Lee-Enfield, if somewhat longer (7.7 x 56 mm R, for the .303). Not surprising, taking into account the British colonial presence on the Far-East.

Without checking the propellants used and pressures developed for each of the cartridges, would definitely not cross my mind putting an AP (or even Ball) .303 round on a Type 99, unless I had absolutely no other choice. This even more so for some of the later war Type 99s, that were produced using pretty poor materials and manufacturing practices.

Hi, I think, you mixing up a little bit the japanese nomenclature.
The rimmed cartridge shown from Vince is indeed a real japanese 7,7 rimmed or .303 british, which the japanese produced at the Yokusuka Navy Arsenal. This cartridge has by far nothing to do, with all the other 7,7mm japanese ammo YOU mentioned.
After WW1 the japanese bought a number of Lewis and Vickers Machineguns in .303 british from the Brits. Until 1929 the Kynoch factory delivred most of the needed ammo. After that year, the Japs started their own production of this guns and their respective ammo. The ammo was produced under the "7,7 Machine Gun ammo" designation and has -as mentioned- nothing to do with their ARMY counterparts.
The Navy loads the ammo -shown from Vince- in 5 loadings (Ball, AP, Tracer, Incendiary and explosive) --and some special loads not interesting here-. They where from 1937 (year Jimmu 2597 what equals 1937) till 1943 haedstamped and later to the end of the war not anymore.
Production was at Yokusuka, Toyokawa and Asahi-Okuma.
In all of the japanese machineguns, which where produced for this type of MG-Ammo, ALL .303 ammo can be safely used and reversed also.
The only personal problem what I might have, would be the use of the very sensible explosive round :)
Such ammo NEVER CAN FIT into a rifle Type 99 or light MG type99, as ammo for this types do not have a rim; therefore its not neccessary to know their loads or whatever. as nobody has to be worried about, to ever use them in a type 99 rifle. They just dont fit.....

Type 89 Machineguns used a SEMIRIMMED cartridge (of type 89) and since 1932 the type 89 and the new Typ 92 MG used the Type 92 ammo, developped for the Land-service. In fact a Vickers-MG copied and set up for this type of ammo.

The rimless ammo, again is an other thing:
This is the rimless 7,7 (x58) and named type 99 (as you mentioned it) for use in the type 97 Tank Machine gun and later in the type 99 Rifle and Type 99 light Machine gun, and cannot accept in any way a rimmed .303/or 7,7 Japanese Navy MG-round.
For more info you should read "Japanese ammo" Part 11 Military Intelligence Division,US War Dep. 20.7.45 and
KEN ELKS, Japanese ammo.
There you can find also some more info for "western thinking" people about the years used in japanese designations. But in fact, for this special issue, only the Showa-period and Jimmu 87 till 5 (the year 1940 was Jimmu 100 and for that they started again at 1) is interesting.

GF
Munition

[Munition]

A short addition to the posting before. The Cartridge shown by Vince is a 7,7 Machinegung NAVY Cartridge made in the second part of the 3 periods(May till Octobre) of the year Jimmu 2600 (indicated by the 0 and is the year 1940) by the Yokusuka (yo) Navy Arsenal.
This stampings just indicates the manufacture of the case....not their loading date. That can only be found on the packing..
GF
Munition

[Viriato]

Munition, Vince,

Doh!
Thanks for the info. Looks like I screwed up there... +5q
I think what got me was the rims distinction. Was not aware 7.7 mm Arisaka was rimless...
Keep forgetting I am dealing with pros here. :)

Munition,

Those explosive rounds you mention. Where they used a lot in action?
First time I hear of rifle chambered explosive rounds, but sounds like pretty interesting stuff. Where they fused in any way?

Well, once again, sorry.

Regards,

Viriato

[Munition]

Munition, Vince,

Doh!
Thanks for the info. Looks like I screwed up there... +5q
I think what got me was the rims distinction. Was not aware 7.7 mm Arisaka was rimless...
Keep forgetting I am dealing with pros here. :)

Munition,

Those explosive rounds you mention. Where they used a lot in action?
First time I hear of rifle chambered explosive rounds, but sounds like pretty interesting stuff. Where they fused in any way?

Well, once again, sorry.

Regards,

Viriato

Hi,
no, the Typ 99 Rifle doesnt has chambered an explosive round. I mentioned only the Type 89/92 light machinegun round (semirimmed) and the 7,7 Rimmed machinegun ammo used an explosive bullet of a very sensitive construction. The bullet contains no fuze, rather than a 2 part bullet of separated RDX and PETN-Filler, which ignited upon impact immediatelly. Thats why the entrance hole in an aircraft wing, is already sufficient, to give a lot of probs to the pilots and other vehicles.
The explosive bullet (type Ms101) had a flat nose and in case of the 7,7 rimmed MG cartridge a white casemouth seal and in case of the semirimmed LMG Type 92 a purple casemouth seal.
The type 99 ammo (rimless ammo) consists of Ball, Blank, Tracer-Incendiary, Ball-AP, and a Gallery Practice round. There was also a decoppering round and a grenade blank.
This -to make it more complicated- was broken up in:
Dummy for Type 97 Tank MG,---
Ball ordinary, Ball in Steel case, AP, Tracer, Incendiary, Blank and Blank in Steelcase for the Type 99 Light Machinegun, --- and
Ball ordinary in brass case, Ball in steel case, Ball for Navy RIFLES, Blank in brass case, Blank in steel case, Gallery Practice and 2 different Dummys for the Rifles, only be differented by casemouth or primer seals and the specific weight of the bullets. It was different for the Rifles and for the Machinegun...
It must be a nightmare for the logistics, to keep all this types separeted from each others... :D
as most of the descriptions where only to read from the packets!!!

But the use of the explosive rounds in both types (92SR and 7,7 rimmed, and also in the 7,92x57 Aircraft-MG (MG15) and K98-Rifles (copies of the K98), was quiet significant.
The Germans also used the B-Patrone or explosive round in Rifles; so nothing new about it... :)
All the best
GF
Munition

[x]

Munition, Vince,

Doh!
Thanks for the info. Looks like I screwed up there... +5q
I think what got me was the rims distinction. Was not aware 7.7 mm Arisaka was rimless...
Keep forgetting I am dealing with pros here. :)

Munition,

Those explosive rounds you mention. Where they used a lot in action?
First time I hear of rifle chambered explosive rounds, but sounds like pretty interesting stuff. Where they fused in any way?

Well, once again, sorry.

Regards,

Viriato


The Germans also used the B-Patrone or explosive round in Rifles; so nothing new about it... :)
All the best
GF
Munition

Not to forget that explosive projectiles were used also by Russia in 7.62x54R, the Brits in .303 and Austria in 8x50R and some more which I forgot...
Mainly these explosive projectiles were ranging and observation cartridges (depending on particular type) also containing some incendiary composition (white phosphorous or a metal based composition).

[nenukadneza]

hi, ich habe hier ein paar fotos von einem französischem ap geschoss und eines vom amerikanischen geschosses in 303 british.1520815209