7,5x54 MAS

[racefiets]

different rounds and ammo clip

rifle grenade cartridge
Blank paper bullet
Blank wood bullet
Blank wood bulled
Ball
Heavy Ball (not AP)
Incendiary (not Tracer)

Ammo clip with tracer rounds

[muma]

Originally posted by racefiets


different rounds and ammo clip

rifle grenade cartridge
Blank paper bullet
Blank wood bullet
Blank wood bulled
Ball
AP
Tracer

Ammo clip with tracer rounds
Hi racefliet,
the cartridge with the all blackened bullet is not an AP; its the heavy ball version; it have usually also a violet casemouth and a violet p.a.. The cartrdiges which you called tracer, are actually AP-T (Armourpiercing-Tracer/Hartkern/Leuchtspur) Green tip, green casemouth and green primer annulus. The "normal" tracer in that time period had a marron or black tip, black p.a. and black casemouth. After the war the tracer starts in 1958 to get a red tip. Unfortunatelly the color coding system of the french is not very consistent for the differnt calibers.
All the best
muma

[MK108]

Immediatly i have forget all of things about 7.5 mas
(7.5x54 modèle 1929 C), some modèles illustrateds are :
Blanc for rifle (paper) or MG (24/29) wood ...
Generaly bullets ml 24 was white, armour piercing bullets mod 29 was brass colour (tombac), black bullet is ml 1933 d
green tips is for APT mod 1935 and blue tips is for aircrafts incendiary mod 1940
Best regards Dan

[muma]

Originally posted by MK108


Immediatly i have forget all of things about 7.5 mas
(7.5x54 modèle 1929 C), some modèles illustrateds are :
Blanc for rifle (paper) or MG (24/29) wood ...
Generaly bullets ml 24 was white, armour piercing bullets mod 29 was brass colour (tombac), black bullet is ml 1933 d
green tips is for APT mod 1935 and blue tips is for aircrafts incendiary mod 1940
Best regards Dan

Hi MK108,

what you call "white" colored jackets are Cupronickel-jackets or better known for the beginner as "silver" colored. Actually divided into CN for cupronickel (non magnetic), or cncs (for cupronickelplated steel/iron jackets).
The AP-Bullet AT THAT TIME had, as you stated a "brass" colored bullet-jacket -but that can mislead people, as they think thats the same color as the case. Tombac-colored jackets are more or less copper-colored (more redish/golden as brass).This golden color is also divided into (GM= Gilding metal/ and GMCS= Gilding metal clad steel jackets)
At that time it was easy to distinguish between the 2(Ball+AP), as the Ball round was silver colored, and the AP was copper-colored. Today its for some people a problem, as France changed there jacket-colors (and tip colors) several times afterwards.The problem is, that the blackened bullet on 7,5 MAS is as I stated before (and you called it correctly Balle D) is a Balle Lourd (for MG), and in the case of the 8x50R for Lebel-Rifles a blackened bullet is actually a real AP/Armour-Piercing bullet, That confuses many people, as-like I said before- the color-system was not consistent for the various calibers. This system was unified after 1958, and color-codes are more or less matching the NATO/OTAN -Code afterwards, with minor exceptions.
All the best
muma

[MK108]

:p
Yes my friend's perhaps it's good to precise my remarqs about AP or not AP is just available for WW2 ammunitions...
with four position marquage ex TE D 2 40

Sometimes you can found some APT mod 35 without green tips where can confused with AP mod 29, it's necessary loocking if a green primer ring is présent ...

After WW2 one énormous quantity of variants and models are tested and used, bullet in steel ,lacquered green with coloured tips, red, dark red (for tracer) red and yellow for 105 spotter, énormous quantity of test for LRAC 73 spotter , with or no electric primer, good lot of propulsiv in plastic white, green.Lots with aluminium core for aircrafts... etc...
SFM (civil) has produced all sort of variants for Cinema. Some munitions are building for Maroc and Yugoslavia. Last productions of 7.5 ammunitions include 7.62 bullet : box labelled" 7.5x54 à balle de 7.62"principally for use in new Machine Gun AA52...

Best regards Dan

[racefiets]

Originally posted by muma


Hi racefiets,
The cartrdiges which you called tracer, are actually AP-T (Armourpiercing-Tracer/Hartkern/Leuchtspur) Green tip, green casemouth and green primer annulus. The "normal" tracer in that time period had a marron or black tip, black p.a. and black casemouth
All the best
muma
I looked in some books and indeed tracer is not right. The colours on the rounds are blue and the rounds are from 1940
VE 1 BA 40.
My books say that they are incendiary rounds. I know i was wrong but are they incendiary or not??

[muma]

Originally posted by racefiets



Originally posted by muma


Hi racefiets,
The cartrdiges which you called tracer, are actually AP-T (Armourpiercing-Tracer/Hartkern/Leuchtspur) Green tip, green casemouth and green primer annulus. The "normal" tracer in that time period had a marron or black tip, black p.a. and black casemouth
All the best
muma
I looked in some books and indeed tracer is not right. The colours on the rounds are blue and the rounds are from 1940
VE 1 BA 40.
My books say that they are incendiary rounds. I know i was wrong but are they incendiary or not??
Hallo,
even as my monitor is colorcalibrated, your pictures showing me your bullet tips on the clip and on the single cartridge as greenish, so thats why I told you, it is AP-T. If they are really blue (light translucent to clear blue), having blue casemouth seal and a blue primer annulus, than they are of course INCENDIARY. They do NOT contain a core, like the german PmK, they are more constructed as the older german SPR-Bullet.
All the best
muma
For your Photocollection: 2 french blank experimentals

[racefiets]

They are realy blue. And nice blanks!!-1q

[mag]

Some INERT blank´s from my collection. Made in 1937 by CN ?

[hammer]

112 - 7,5 RSKES APILAS vj sppra alh sn

[Rudolf]

7,5x54 tir réduit

[racefiets]

Originally posted by hammer


112 - 7,5 RSKES APILAS vj sppra alh sn

:p And now in Englisch or German.

[HUGO]

Hi collectors...

and the next blank ammo 7,5x54 MAS


Greetings HUGO

[hammer]

112 - 7,5 RSKES APILAS vj sppra alh sn


= For APILAS Bazooka, Sub Tracer. -1q

[MK108]

I found very old photo of 7.5 mas, sorry but very bad quality
We see:
Mas Bullet 24 (no bullet ring)
Mas Bullet 34 (bullet ring)
Mas 29/1959 Bullet 34 (new hstp with cal 7.5 vrote)
Mas 1929/59 Bullet tombac (new hstp not AP)
Mas mod 59(29/59) (bullet laque ml 30)
Mas mod 1952
Mas mod 33D (heavy bullet)
Mas perfo mod1929 (AP)
Mas TP mod 29 bullet 35
Mas Tracer G 59 A
Mas Tracer mod 1958A
Mas Tracer mod 1950 A (bullet Cupro nickel)
Mas Blanc mod 1937 (bullet paper case hstp 1959, 7.5 vrote)
Mas Blanc mod 1937 (bullet paper caser laque)
2x Mas Blanc mod 1930 (wood bullet) on case from 7.5x58
mod 1924 rebuted and retailled )
2x Mas blanc mod 1930 wood, too exist mod rot, white or gold, green to blue ...
Blanc mod 1958
Blanc mod 1958M (i have forget the difference)
Blanc mod F1
Note (so exist modeles for grenade launcher prop 69A & B, one was green)
Inerte lestée (dummy), so exist modele all in steel
Ballplast (short range rifle) so exist too Aluminium case
Tir réduit LRAC (short range rocket LRAC 73 mm) electric primer
Tir réduit LRAC MT4 (short range rocket LRAC 73 mm) electric primer with isolated in paper .
Tir réduit (rifle) ml 1929 lead bullet with nitrate paper
Propulsive "feuillette" for grenade launcher
Is just for exemple, 7.5 série is énormous, without speaking about expérimentals modèls...
Best regards, dan