Russian case hstp

[K12E]

Hello

I have a question about this russian case .
What does the crown mean on the bottom of the case (at 12 o'clock) ?

I had ever seen the russian eagle but never a crown .
Thank you ...

[racefiets]

You can add the picture with bilddatei / picturefile. You can then upload your picture.

[K12E]

Ok Racefiets , thank you

[muma]

Originally posted by K12E


Ok Racefiets , thank you


Hi ,
why you think it is russian? It bears cyrillic marks, but this was also used by Yougoslavia (at that time Kingdom of Serbia) AND several others. 3B means only ZV= State Factory or Military Factory (Voina Zavod) and can also subsequently be used by other countries using the cyrillic language.
All the best
muma

[Vince]

Hello K12E!

Can you post a picture about the entire case?

Greetings
Vince

[K12E]

Hello Vince

a photo of the case

K12E

[Vince]

Hello!

Nice one! Does anybody have any information what weapon used this cartridge?

Vince

[Rudolf]

Hello

I believe it's a 57x224 shell for the Russian Sokol-gun. Belgium did also use this calibre in their Maxim-Nordenfeldguns (for the defence of their forts). In WW1, the Germans used this Russian and Belgian guns in their tanks.

@Muma: 57mm-guns which are used in Ex-Yougoslavia are:
*S-60 AA-gun in 57x348SR
*ZSU-57-2 selfpropelled AA-gun also 57x348SR
*ZIS-2 (M1943) towed gun in 57x480R
I have no information that 57x224 ammo was used in Ex-Yougo.

Greetz Rudolf

[muma]

Originally posted by Rudolf


Hello

I believe it's a 57x224 shell for the Russian Sokol-gun. Belgium did also use this calibre in their Maxim-Nordenfeldguns (for the defence of their forts). In WW1, the Germans used this Russian and Belgian guns in their tanks.

@Muma: 57mm-guns which are used in Ex-Yougoslavia are:
*S-60 AA-gun in 57x348SR
*ZSU-57-2 selfpropelled AA-gun also 57x348SR
*ZIS-2 (M1943) towed gun in 57x480R
I have no information that 57x224 ammo was used in Ex-Yougo.

Greetz Rudolf
Hi Rudolf,
I did´nt say,thats yougoslavian. I just mentioned, as it has a crown and a "Voinna" headstamp, that it could be made, by any country, (in 1905 there was no yougoslavia!!) thats using the cyrillic language; as an example: Yougoslavia today including its former states (Macedonia,Serbia). But there are still Bulgaria,Russia, Ukraine, Belo-Russia (Weißrussland).
As the hs with a closer look say " Sh (the 3 in hs) and a real cyrrilic B, it could be a bulgarian case, as I do not know any russian factory, which used that marking. Bulgaria nad Serbia where a Kingdom at that time, so its most probably one of this countries.
The guns you mentioned in your post, are all of newer "provenance" and do not fit the timeframe of the case.
Maybe that one of the above countries used your SOKOL-Gun besides Belgium. But it is in no way, a russian one.
Greetings
muma

[muma]

Hi again,
an if I take my calibrated screen as correct, and the given diameter of the case as 57mm, the cartrdige-lenght should be than around 255mm (in ratio to the diameter of the case on my monitor). But K12E can give us the exact lenght of that case, I think??
All the best to all
muma

[K12E]

Hi muma,

This case is 224 mm lenght !
I have an other with russian headstamps, i think, i send a pictures nextly. :)

All the best.

K12E

[K12E]

The base of a same case but with russian hdstps :
57 x 224 R

Regards

_________________

K12E

[muma]

Originally posted by K12E


The base of a same case but with russian hdstps :
57 x 224 R

Regards

_________________

K12E
yes, thats nice. But from the form of the case-base (the socalled face) you can see, that it is completely different from the other one. Its smooth, the edges are "rounder", means that it was made on complete different machinery as the 3b headstamped one.
This one has the Tula hs, the Tula Zavod acceptance mark, and the "finished" mark on the left. So I still believe, that the other case is not of russian origin..
All the best
muma